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	<title>Comments on: A-Levels: Gah.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/</link>
	<description>The world from a mathematician's perspective</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8302</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8302</guid>
		<description>Ange, whilst Neil's comments were not grammatically correct, it is a clear ad hominem attack to disregard anything he says out of hand. As I made clear, I do believe that his opinion carries considerable merit.

I do agree that the comment about whether students deserve to be there or not was not appropriate. Clearly, students have to make their own mind up about studying at university and their motivation should not be questioned, nor should their right to be there. Whether or not their chosen course will benefit them and/or the country as a whole -- in my view, the chances are that it won't -- is probably the point that Neil was trying to convey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ange, whilst Neil&#8217;s comments were not grammatically correct, it is a clear ad hominem attack to disregard anything he says out of hand. As I made clear, I do believe that his opinion carries considerable merit.</p>
<p>I do agree that the comment about whether students deserve to be there or not was not appropriate. Clearly, students have to make their own mind up about studying at university and their motivation should not be questioned, nor should their right to be there. Whether or not their chosen course will benefit them and/or the country as a whole &#8212; in my view, the chances are that it won&#8217;t &#8212; is probably the point that Neil was trying to convey.</p>
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		<title>By: Ange</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8299</link>
		<dc:creator>Ange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8299</guid>
		<description>I have a problem with taking Neil's comments seriously when he cannot use the English language correctly. It should be 'it's' not 'its', 'carries' not 'carry's' and 'a lot' not 'alot'. Please don't make judgements about others' motivation for being at university (and whether or not they deserve to be there)in such a flippant and illiterate way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a problem with taking Neil&#8217;s comments seriously when he cannot use the English language correctly. It should be &#8216;it&#8217;s&#8217; not &#8216;its&#8217;, &#8216;carries&#8217; not &#8216;carry&#8217;s&#8217; and &#8216;a lot&#8217; not &#8216;alot&#8217;. Please don&#8217;t make judgements about others&#8217; motivation for being at university (and whether or not they deserve to be there)in such a flippant and illiterate way!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8270</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8270</guid>
		<description>Neil,

Thanks for your comments. I couldn't agree more with what you've said - 50% is wholly unrealistic. Further, I don't believe that there should be &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; goal with the aim of getting x students to university. To do so simply devalues the degrees of people passing through and doesn't help anybody in the long run, with the possible exception of the universities themselves. Some people will simply not need to go to university, and I think this is something that the government refuses to accept.

You need to couple this with the education system we have in place to supposedly prepare under 18's for university. Unfortunately I think we're at the stage where a lot of - or possibly too much - damage has been done. Having two teachers in my immediate family (one primary and another secondary), I know that they would just like some common sense to be used.  Those going through primary education and now into secondary education are going to be seriously disadvantaged due to similarly stupid schemes and unnecessary paperwork for teachers brought in by the government.

Anyway, I'm glad you found this entry. I feel that I should write something else on this topic soon as it's proven to be the most popular by far!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. I couldn&#8217;t agree more with what you&#8217;ve said - 50% is wholly unrealistic. Further, I don&#8217;t believe that there should be <em>any</em> goal with the aim of getting x students to university. To do so simply devalues the degrees of people passing through and doesn&#8217;t help anybody in the long run, with the possible exception of the universities themselves. Some people will simply not need to go to university, and I think this is something that the government refuses to accept.</p>
<p>You need to couple this with the education system we have in place to supposedly prepare under 18&#8217;s for university. Unfortunately I think we&#8217;re at the stage where a lot of - or possibly too much - damage has been done. Having two teachers in my immediate family (one primary and another secondary), I know that they would just like some common sense to be used.  Those going through primary education and now into secondary education are going to be seriously disadvantaged due to similarly stupid schemes and unnecessary paperwork for teachers brought in by the government.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m glad you found this entry. I feel that I should write something else on this topic soon as it&#8217;s proven to be the most popular by far!</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Duran</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8268</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Duran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8268</guid>
		<description>I have an 'O' Level maths book from 1977. Today this would be considered 'A' Level material. Indeed the material on Matrices, which involves a simple electrical circuit filter. I have studied on a BEng electrical eng degree course. Maths has been made easier to pass. On the first day of my degree course me all took a maths test which hasn't changed for years. The average score has been dropping for every year. Its not the students fault. 50 % of students going to uni is a unrealistic target. It can't be more than 25 % of the whole population capable of uni study. I have heard that its getting easier even to pass a Phd. If this carry's on we will not have the universities that we should be proud off. Alot of students at uni now don't deserve to be there and do not go for the learning expereience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an &#8216;O&#8217; Level maths book from 1977. Today this would be considered &#8216;A&#8217; Level material. Indeed the material on Matrices, which involves a simple electrical circuit filter. I have studied on a BEng electrical eng degree course. Maths has been made easier to pass. On the first day of my degree course me all took a maths test which hasn&#8217;t changed for years. The average score has been dropping for every year. Its not the students fault. 50 % of students going to uni is a unrealistic target. It can&#8217;t be more than 25 % of the whole population capable of uni study. I have heard that its getting easier even to pass a Phd. If this carry&#8217;s on we will not have the universities that we should be proud off. Alot of students at uni now don&#8217;t deserve to be there and do not go for the learning expereience.</p>
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		<title>By: A Levels &#124; Math Discussions</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8241</link>
		<dc:creator>A Levels &#124; Math Discussions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-8241</guid>
		<description>[...] to see the effect this is having on university mathematics courses even in the last few years A-Levels: Gah.  However, A level mathematics and its equivalent has become steadily easier over at least the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to see the effect this is having on university mathematics courses even in the last few years A-Levels: Gah.  However, A level mathematics and its equivalent has become steadily easier over at least the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4152</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4152</guid>
		<description>Very good points from Charles and Sayo.

I completely agree that it should not be the place of universities to be teaching students stuff they should already have known. As far as I can tell, making the students learn the knowledge themselves isn't going to help matters.

Apart from a small minority, most students will simply not be able to cope with the amount of knowledge that needs to be absorbed, and when it comes to exam time, they'll simply fail or get much lower marks. Universities will then moderate the marks upwards, and we'll be in the position where people are coming out with 2.1s or even 1sts who don't know what the heck they're talking about - this is probably an even worse position than we're currently in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good points from Charles and Sayo.</p>
<p>I completely agree that it should not be the place of universities to be teaching students stuff they should already have known. As far as I can tell, making the students learn the knowledge themselves isn&#8217;t going to help matters.</p>
<p>Apart from a small minority, most students will simply not be able to cope with the amount of knowledge that needs to be absorbed, and when it comes to exam time, they&#8217;ll simply fail or get much lower marks. Universities will then moderate the marks upwards, and we&#8217;ll be in the position where people are coming out with 2.1s or even 1sts who don&#8217;t know what the heck they&#8217;re talking about - this is probably an even worse position than we&#8217;re currently in.</p>
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		<title>By: Sayonara</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4150</link>
		<dc:creator>Sayonara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4150</guid>
		<description>How did it even come to pass that the onus falls on universities to correct the sub-standard education of new students? It should be the case that the syllabus is the syllabus, and if you want to do well then you make sure you are prepared for the course before it begins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How did it even come to pass that the onus falls on universities to correct the sub-standard education of new students? It should be the case that the syllabus is the syllabus, and if you want to do well then you make sure you are prepared for the course before it begins.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4149</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4149</guid>
		<description>Just for the record, Mathematics is clearly not alone. I recently graduated with a First Class degree in Computing from supposedly one of the best universities in the country for that subject. It was not difficult. I am not amazingly clever but the course was amazingly dumbed down. I looked at exam papers from only five years ago and they were much harder than the exams I sat. Some courses had had their syllabus cut in half over the last few years.

Lack of funding forces universities to take on foreign students who are not up to scratch (I sat through some tutorials with someone who didn't even know what computer science was before he arrived in England) and to grant places to home students who have not been adequately prepared by A-levels (the ability to demand top-up fees is dependent on the university meeting certain discriminatory admissions criteria.)

As a result, when I sat through training for my new job at an American company, I was embarrassed by the vast chasm between the British and the American graduates. I wish I had gone to university in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for the record, Mathematics is clearly not alone. I recently graduated with a First Class degree in Computing from supposedly one of the best universities in the country for that subject. It was not difficult. I am not amazingly clever but the course was amazingly dumbed down. I looked at exam papers from only five years ago and they were much harder than the exams I sat. Some courses had had their syllabus cut in half over the last few years.</p>
<p>Lack of funding forces universities to take on foreign students who are not up to scratch (I sat through some tutorials with someone who didn&#8217;t even know what computer science was before he arrived in England) and to grant places to home students who have not been adequately prepared by A-levels (the ability to demand top-up fees is dependent on the university meeting certain discriminatory admissions criteria.)</p>
<p>As a result, when I sat through training for my new job at an American company, I was embarrassed by the vast chasm between the British and the American graduates. I wish I had gone to university in America.</p>
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		<title>By: Tozznok</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4146</link>
		<dc:creator>Tozznok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4146</guid>
		<description>There's an entry on Peter Hitchens' blog about this issue.  He quotes an article written by current Tory Education spokesman Michael Gove back in 2002: in that piece, Gove attacked Estelle Morris, the then Education Secretary, for trying to blame the QCA for this, when the QCA was merely acting on orders from her department!  Gove's article is here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/michael_gove/article1171095.ece

However, as Hitchens points out, now that Gove is in the Shadow Cabinet, he is silent.  The Tories aren't going to help solve this problem, then.  Actually, they're the ones who started it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an entry on Peter Hitchens&#8217; blog about this issue.  He quotes an article written by current Tory Education spokesman Michael Gove back in 2002: in that piece, Gove attacked Estelle Morris, the then Education Secretary, for trying to blame the QCA for this, when the QCA was merely acting on orders from her department!  Gove&#8217;s article is here: <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/michael_gove/article1171095.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/michael_gove/article1171095.ece</a></p>
<p>However, as Hitchens points out, now that Gove is in the Shadow Cabinet, he is silent.  The Tories aren&#8217;t going to help solve this problem, then.  Actually, they&#8217;re the ones who started it!</p>
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		<title>By: Mathematics Weblog &#187; A Levels</title>
		<link>http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4144</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathematics Weblog &#187; A Levels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xyloid.org/2007/08/19/a-levels-gah/#comment-4144</guid>
		<description>[...] to see the effect this is having on university mathematics courses even in the last few years A-Levels: Gah.  However, A level mathematics and its equivalent has become steadily easier over at least the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to see the effect this is having on university mathematics courses even in the last few years A-Levels: Gah.  However, A level mathematics and its equivalent has become steadily easier over at least the [...]</p>
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